Having worked for a prominent geothermal manufacturer while competing with Earth Linked Technologies (formerly ECR Technologies), here is a tip of the hat to the boys in Lakeland, Fla. I spent part of a day at the company’s annual sales meeting. The keynote speaker wasn’t much to write home about but the gathering of about 30 of the company’s sales reps, a.k.a. distributors, was a heck of a lot of fun.
Geo has always been one of those things of which it is often said, “you either get it, or you don’t – like religion.” Though I am now quite far-removed from the daily faithful, I got the religion in the mid-90s, and it was eye-opening if not exciting to be back in church.
About three-fourths of the sales reps began in mainstream heating and a/c, then ventured into geothermal. The others in attendance came from various walks of life such as insurance or retail, and have now cast their lots with DX geothermal at Earth Linked Technologies. DX requires, just as does traditional geo, a strong passion for the technology and an even stronger appreciation for training and education. That was the most exciting part of being back in the fold, if only for the day — seeing the passion for this business exhibited by some good ol’ boys that have a penchant for doing things right.
PS: The good ol’ boys came from as far as Montreal and Australia.
MikeMurphy Editor-in-Chief. E-mail him at mikemurphy@achrnews.com.
Title: Geo-thermal By: Dean Posted: February 18, 2008 10:17 PM
I am from the service side, is there any data on projected maintenance costs and repairs on commercial heat pumps systems.
In most cases the filters needed are odd sized and costly, along with time to change all these filters in the ceilings.
How about repairs? 100 compressors and motors ect. to maintain compared to maybe several larger systems. Time to repair these heatpumps should also be considered, many times heat pumps have to be removed from ceiling for major repairs because lack of room.
I know 2 buildings that the "closed loops" with glycol are leaking. The loops are under parking lots. Glycol make-up tanks were added to keep systems full. Is this right?
Title: Hat Off to Boys of Geo By: Richard Posted: February 19, 2008 9:11 AM
It's great to see GeoThermal mentioned in the HVAC News. However, since it is promoted as an "Earth Friendly" technology I am a little concerned with the DX type that runs refrigerant through copper tubing in the ground. How long until we are pumping refrigerant and oil into Mother Earth. And the EPA will stop DX Geo systems from being installed.
Title: DX Geothermal, Refrigerants and oil in the earth By: Michael G Dilling Posted: February 19, 2008 9:47 AM
Thanks to Richard for his comment as it brings to light another "misconception" often associated with DX. Just remember, the refrigerants do not comtaminate or "linger" in the soils if a leak occurs. It is physically impossible. If it was possible then refrigeration as a process wouldn't work either. There are a huge number of more contaminating substances being introduced to the earth by other industries and processes. Lets get real. The issue of oil? The amount of oil that would escape from a leak is less than the amount of oil dripping from the cars in a shopping center parking lot in 1 hour on any day of the week. Again, some people get excited about things that don't matter and ignore things that do. The EPA will stop many other things before they stop DX geothermal. That includes the guys doing conventional geothermal and conventional systems. Lets recognize DX geothermal for what it really is, a way to use our knowledge in the HVAC industry to heat and cool buildings very inexpensively and VERY environmentally friendly.
Title: Geo-thermal By: Dean Posted: February 19, 2008 10:29 AM
I am from the service side, is there any data on projected maintenance costs and repairs on commercial heat pumps systems.
In most cases the filters needed are odd sized and costly, along with time to change all these filters in the ceilings.
How about repairs? 100 compressors and motors ect. to maintain compared to maybe several larger systems. Time to repair these heatpumps should also be considered, many times heat pumps have to be removed from ceiling for major repairs because lack of room.
I know 2 buildings that the "closed loops" with glycol are leaking. The loops are under parking lots. Glycol make-up tanks were added to keep systems full. Is this right?
Title: Hats Off ... DX Geothermal By: Murph Posted: February 19, 2008 10:10 PM
Dean raises a good question that I can't answer directly. Anybody out there got some ideas on service for commercial heat pump applications? I assume that Dean is referring to water source heat pumps ...
My thoughts: more commercial buildings owners are interested in the zoning that comes with smaller systems located throughout the building - more service points are going to be part of the equation.
Title: LEAKING GEO By: JOE Posted: February 19, 2008 10:36 PM
IN VIRTUALLY EVERY CASE WE INSTALL GEO INSTEAD OF PROPANE OR FUEL OIL. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT LEAKY, HOW ABOUT ARCHAIC SYSTEMS (SUCH AS PROPANE OR OIL)THAT VIRTUALLY CANT BE DELIVERED OR REFILLED WITHOUT SOME SPILLAGE.
Title: ECR Nightmare By: Michael Large Posted: April 29, 2008 11:40 AM
I am sure that Geothermal is as nice as you say (when it works). I hired a licensed ECR Dealer in 2002 to put system in my 4200 sq. ft. home. The licensed dealer installed it wrong. Of course, it should be of no surpise since the dealer who was trained at ECR had never installed any type of heat pump before my installation. Anyway, I had to pay someone else to clean up the mess. Still never had good savings and ECR in Florida told be it was not there problem (nothwithstanding the fact that they train just anyone to sale and install their systems). System breaks down about every 1 1/2 years. Just this month I was told by a former rep who I pay to drive 4 hours to my home that a loop or manifold (underground) was now busted. So, I am going to regular airsource. So bottom line, ECR are not stand up guys. They improperly train reps and when the reps mess up, they point the finger elsewhere. I have learned a very expensive lesson
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By: Dean
Posted: February 18, 2008 10:17 PM
In most cases the filters needed are odd sized and costly, along with time to change all these filters in the ceilings.
How about repairs? 100 compressors and motors ect. to maintain compared to maybe several larger systems. Time to repair these heatpumps should also be considered, many times heat pumps have to be removed from ceiling for major repairs because lack of room.
I know 2 buildings that the "closed loops" with glycol are leaking. The loops are under parking lots. Glycol make-up tanks were added to keep systems full. Is this right?
By: Richard
Posted: February 19, 2008 9:11 AM
By: Michael G Dilling
Posted: February 19, 2008 9:47 AM
By: Dean
Posted: February 19, 2008 10:29 AM
In most cases the filters needed are odd sized and costly, along with time to change all these filters in the ceilings.
How about repairs? 100 compressors and motors ect. to maintain compared to maybe several larger systems. Time to repair these heatpumps should also be considered, many times heat pumps have to be removed from ceiling for major repairs because lack of room.
I know 2 buildings that the "closed loops" with glycol are leaking. The loops are under parking lots. Glycol make-up tanks were added to keep systems full. Is this right?
By: Murph
Posted: February 19, 2008 10:10 PM
My thoughts: more commercial buildings owners are interested in the zoning that comes with smaller systems located throughout the building - more service points are going to be part of the equation.
By: JOE
Posted: February 19, 2008 10:36 PM
By: Michael Large
Posted: April 29, 2008 11:40 AM